bed. >> you heard him. you heard what he told kelly and michael. i wear as little as possible. visualize that for a minute. p pretend the end of the last minute never happened. steven colbert throws the shrimp. we showed you from your memory. here it is again. watch this remarkable grab. there he is, top-hat colbert throwing the shrimp. there it is. he makes the catch. "morning joe" starts right now. well, i don't know what he was referring to, but i can tell you this. when i won in 2008, 47% of the american people voted for john mccain. they didn't vote for me. and what i said on election night was even though you didn't vote for me, i hear your voices,

and i'm going to work as hard as i can to be your president. and one of the things i've learned as president is you represent the entire country. and when i meet republicans, as i'm traveling around the country, they are hardworking family people who care deeply about this country. and my expectation is is that if you want to be president, you've got to work for everybody, not just for some. >> others have said that you just kissed half the electorate good-bye this election year, that you all but called them moochers. did you? >> no, i'm talking about a perspective of individuals who i'm not likely to get to support me. i recognize that those people who are not paying income tax are going to say gosh, this provision that mitt keeps

talking about, lowering income taxes, that's not going to be real attractive to them. and those that are dependent upon government and those that think government's job is to redistribute, i'm not going to get them. i don't expect to get 60% or 70% of the vote. i understand that some portion will be the president's. some portion will be mine. i've got to get as many as i can from every single cohort in this country. >> all right. it's the top of the hour. good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, september 19th. with us on set, we have msnbc -- >> we've got our cohorts here. >> mike. >> i don't call them cohorts. i call them something else. msnbc contributor mike barnicle and president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. and in chicago, chef "time" senior political editor, mark halperin. >> he's out. mining for stories in chicago.

why did you call mika already this morning? a little anne hathaway. >> kind of a wcatwoman. >> kind of a catwoman dress. >> we had the segment a couple days ago. >> leather for fall. >> i'm trying to be -- it's not working, is it? >> it's on trend. >> no. you're fashion forward, straight into batman 4. >> okay. t.j. just said something perverted in my ear. we're moving forward. >> that's t.j. we're not going to tell the american people what t.j. says. wow! mark halperin -- >> all right. >> the buzards are circling. >> let's let the right speak. >> from the right, man. this is sort of rough days for the romney campaign. mark halperin in chicago. >> first of all -- >> sleeping.

>> first of all -- >> halperin is still stunned by the dress. i don't know. >> it's not that bad. >> it's good. no, it's good. >> i think mika looks purrfect. >> from chicago, thank you. >> there's a lot of national polling data out there. the romney campaign is pointing not to "the wall street journal"/nbc news poll which shows the president with a pretty substantial lead or the cbs/"new york times" poll. there's a lot of polling that suggests the president has a big lead. the romney campaign has to be troubled by the fact that if you ask the question who do you trust more to deal with the economy? the president, the one attribute where he had a big gap, has closed the gap in a lot of polls. there are other polls like the associated press today, like the "usa today"/gallup poll which

shows the race much tighter. and i think it's easier, not just talking about a republican in terms of gaffes, it's easy for the filter, the gang of 500, the chattering class, to look at a gaffe and think oh, my goodness, this is the whole race. the whole race has been thrown off. fundamentally the president has a lead. he had a lead before. some of his convention lead has dissipated, but romney's behind, but this race is not over despite what you might read on twitter. >> well, of course, this race is not over. and the gang of 500, as you talk about, may be very concerned about what's going on right now and suggest that it may be over. but, of course, mika, this is not a gaffe. this is a string of mistakes starting all the way back at the republican convention, stepping on a remarkable video, some remarkable stories about mitt romney the man and it's gone through a disastrous libyan press conference, through campaign infighting and, of course, through this video that was leaked a couple days ago.

and the big problem isn't that the liberal media is circling mitt romney. we expect that. >> well -- >> it's that conservatives are now circling around mitt romney and telling him he's speaking truth to power. this is not working. >> yeah. i was watching the different versions of coverage of it, and it was kind of disturbing. at this point you let the story speak for itself. that's my advice. in a moment we'd be showing you the newest polls where mitt romney's numbers continue to dip. and the republican candidate is now facing what can best be described as an open rebellion from the right. bill kristol, editor of the conservative publication "the weekly standard" is joining a number of other republican voices in questioning romney's choice of words at that fund-raiser. in an opinion piece entitled "a note on romney's arrogant and stupid remarks," kristol says in part, "it's worth recalling that a good chunk of the 47% who don't pay income taxes are

romney supporters, especially of course seniors, as well as many lower-north carolinas as well as men and women serving in the military who think conservative policies are better for the country even if they're not getting a tax cut under the romney plan." >> amen. amen. >> kristol goes on to ask, "has there been a presidential race in modern times featuring two candidates who have done so little over their lifetimes for our country and who have done so little substance to say about the future of our country?" >> let's stop right there for a second, richard haass. that is, i think, at its core what is the most depressing thing about this campaign. and it is laid out clearly by bill kristol there. not only their pasts, but more depressingly, what mitt romney and barack obama do not offer for the next hour four years. >> i think more broadly is there's not a whole lot of content and substance sitting around talking about, so that's

all you've got. you've got to almost read the tea leaves and say is this unintentionally revealing? but if people were putting out full-blown statements about what we ought to do about entitlements and the budget, what we ought to do to get economic growth up to current levels, what we ought to be doing about the middle east and other foreign policy challenges, then we would have something real to talk about in this campaign. and these things, whether they get a little attention, wouldn't be front and center to the extent they are. >> and "the wall street journal" proved in their editorial which is what i've been saying all along, mitt romney, he doesn't know how to speak like a conservative because you get -- you just believe over time, it's just not in his gut. he's a technocrat, a gdata guy. i thought "the wl street journal" said it wonderfully, which is we conservatives around angry at these people that 47% of the population that are on government benefits, we don't

look at them as the problem. they are victims. they are victims of bad economic policies. that over the past decade have caused -- have caused this economy to drop. and our job as conservatives is to turn the economy around and make americans less dependent on the federal government. not because we resent those people who have to get help like scott brown in massachusetts said growing up, his family needed assistance. growing up my family needed assistance. and that's what kristol gets here. that mitt romney doesn't get. that's what "the wall street journal" editorial page gets, that mitt romney doesn't get. and that is that guys like my dad who were unemployed for a year and a half and couldn't find a job, they were voting nixon. and they were voting the straight republican ticket. and they were voting for the most conservative people on the ticket because they believed

that was their best way forward. maybe there are people unemployed that will vote for the democrat. but mitt romney's idea that if you're on unemployment benefits or if you're getting money from the federal government, that you're just this lazy slob of a victim, it just shows how insulated and isolated he is. kristol gets it. "the wall street journal" editorial page gets it. mitt romney doesn't. peggy noonan also wrote about this. >> you're not the only one from the right saying this. i was asking the question -- i'm not obviously from this point of view, but i've been asking, why can't you reset this campaign? why can't -- why can't big changes be made right now to the team? and most of the experts that we've had on who have covered campaigns past have said it just doesn't happen. it just doesn't happen. it just doesn't happen this late. "the wall street journal's" peggy noonan writes in her blog that it's, quote, time for an

interve interventi intervention. it's time to admit the romney campaign is an incompetent one. it's not big, it's not brave, it's not thoughtfully tackling great issues, it's always been too small for the moment. all of the activists, party supporters and big donors should be pushing for change. people want to focus on who is at the top at least constructive and most responsible. fine, but mitt romney is no puppet. he chooses who to listen to. an intervention is in order. mitt, this isn't working." and republican senator from massachusetts scott brown, you mentioned this, who's his own -- in his own tough re-election fight said of romney's comments this. "that's not the way i view the world. as someone who grew up in tough circumstances, i know that being on public assistance is not a spot that anyone wants to be in." and to keep in mind, elizabeth warren is pouncing on mitt romney's comments because they'll connect. it's a nightmare for scott brown. >> you see other blue state republicans, linda mcmahon, same thing, ran away from those comments, didn't attend a

fund-raiser with paul ryan in fairfield county, two of them. you'll see this trend in blue states. >> lindsey graham even in a red state, lindsey yesterday being critical. you know, i've said this for a couple of weeks. and we've been hearing it behind the scenes. and all of these right-wing nutjobs, far right-wing nutjobs, why is joe scarborough the rhino saying that, it means they're all saying it. just because it took them a week to have the nerve to come out and say it publicly, you know, we've all been hearing this, mika. >> well, you actually raised a warning flag about two weeks ago, maybe. >> right. >> before even all of this happened with the tape. and you wrote this. this is your political column. "these criticisms --" you tweeted this. this is laura ingram who -- >> no, no. >> goes on and on and on about

what you said. but you said romney will lose if he doesn't dramatically change his strategy. negative ads won't substitute for conservative ideas. >> mike barnicle, the point about 10, 12 days ago that i was trying to make was, if you have -- people like reagan and people like margaret thatcher would not have changed the world, would not have changed their parties, would not have changed their conservative movements, would not have changed their countries if they had run these timid, negative campaigns. i mean, margaret thatcher was a shopkeeper's daughter. she wasn't the 1%. and she got it. reagan got it. like i said, bill kristol gets it. paul ryan gets it. >> it's really not that hard is the problem. >> why do they get it? i'll tell you why they get it. because each person, as you just mentioned, reagan, thatcher, paul ryan, bill kristol, they know who they are. what that tape does, it reveals so much about something that i've thought about with regard

to mitt romney for at least 20 years. who is he? who is he? is he a moderate trying to pretend he's a tough guy really nut case, you know, right-wing conservative? who is he? >> he's insulated. that's who he is. >> he's insulated, but he's also, i think, fundamentally at his core trying to figure out on a daily basis who is he? the campaign reflects that. every campaign is a mirror reflection of a candidate at some level. we all know that. so what you've got here -- what he did in that -- look it, the election is far from over. there are 50, 49 days left, 49 different things could happen. but it reveals a couple of things. one, he's not very optimistic. americans are -- >> no, he's not optimistic at all. >> americans are optimistic. that's one fatal flaw, near-fatal flaw. the other aspect it reveals is his use of the word "victims," which is, wow! >> victims who want to sit back and do nothing.

>> the third thing it does, at least locally, and i think this is probably happening in several other states, is scott brown is now in real trouble. real trouble. this was a huge in-kind contribution to elizabeth warren's campaign. >> no doubt about it. it hurts linda mcmahon. it hurts republicans in blue states that are swimming upstream already. but what a great point. the lack of optimism, richard haass, that mike just pointed out in mitt romney whereas thatcher was extraordinarily optimistic. reagan was extraordinarily optimistic. george w. bush won in 2000 by talking about a compassionate conservative, going to the inner cities, talking about leaving no child. he believed in an opportunity in society. jack kemp believed in an opportunity society. conservatism works when you basically have a group of people

who are evangelicals for the free market system, not because you want to separate the, quote, victims from the producers, but because you want -- i'll just say it -- you want -- you believe -- i still believe a rising tide lifts all boats, left wingers who i've just offended. let me say it again. a rising tide lifts all boats. and mitt romney doesn't believe that. he believes he can win with 51% and let the 49% take care of themselves. >> well, that's why so much of the conversation ought to be on how you get economic growth back. if you have economic growth that's at the level that has historically been for the last 50 years which is just over 3%, if you do that, it will not only deal with jobs but questions and problems part of this debate. ultimately the fault line in the united states is not the fault line between the people receiving federal assistance and those who aren't. what we want to do is get people off those things.

that status ought to be transitional. and they ought to ultimately move to the point where they are, if you will, taxpayers or they working full time and so forth. that ought to be the debate, and that's what's missing. again, what's missing i actually think from this campaign is not just optimism, but it's a set of ideas on the economy, on the budget, on our role in the world. you can't -- neither candidate is actually putting forward much in the way -- you say an optimistic agenda. i'd also say a positive agenda and have two candidates who are painly counterpunching and they're refraining from putting forward ideas lest they be attacked. this is a very defensive campaign. so you don't say what tax expenditures you'd get rid of. you don't exactly say how you would curtail entitlements. everybody's playing defensive. but what this shows, but not playing offense, you're still on the defensive. because what happens is is people are faceting on these comments.

the only strategy is a defensive strategy. >> on the editorial page, if you don't believe anything, then you're going to keep stumbling over yourself. >> someone said yesterday he has conservatism as a second language. it's not his fluent language. you have to wonder what a republican thinks watching that. you say, is that the way the leader, the guy who wants to be the leader of our party and our country feels about me when i watch that tape? is that what he thinks about me? and peggy raises the larger point -- you can talk about what it means for romney and his campaign, but what does it mean for conservatism? behind closed doors, mitt romney just paid the parody, the caricature of conservatism of the republican party that progressives make, that all they care about are rich people. he made the case on tape. >> so let's say you're serving in afghanistan or you had several tours of duty there and your family's struggling and you watched the republican national

convention, and you are not mentioned in mitt romney's signature speech that's supposed to lay the groundwork for the really kick start of the campaign or reset of the campaign. and then you do hear him speak at this fund-raiser on hidden camera. >> yeah, exactly. >> i don't think you're happy. >> no. again, talking about the chaos of the campaign, pete weiner who wrote romney's speech wrote about afghanistan. >> yeah. >> and stuart stevens tore the speech up and chaos ensued, and this is what we get. >> gosh. >> we've also got a new nbc/"wall street journal" poll that came out, and it shows actually barack obama is benefiting. >> yeah. increased optimism on the economy, direction of the country. let's look at the head-to-head matchup, obama/biden ticket leads romney and ryan by 5 points, 50% to 45%. also since march president obama's job approval has reached the 50% mark.

48% disapprove. on the direction of the country, 39% said the country was headed in the right direction. 55% say it's on the wrong track. that's a 7% improvement from last month. and on the economy, 42% say the economy will get better in the next 12 months. that's the highest number this poll question has seen in 2 1/2 years. >> that's pretty big. and also, mika, when asked which candidate is best to handle the economy, look at this. it's now a tie. >> yeah, obama now tied with romney, 43-43. this is the first time romney has not led on this question. just to point out, though, this latest polling was conducted after last week's u.s. embassy attacks which appeared to have impacted the president's numbers on foreign policy. 49% approved, last month that number was 54%. that poll was taken before the release of that videotape. >> mark halperin, you also look at the state-by-state polls out right now, wisconsin, bad news, ohio, it seems the internals keep getting worse.

i had one republican operative tell me yesterday there's some question how long they're going to stay in ohio. colorado right now, obama ahead there. virginia, a four-point lead there. mitt romney has an uphill battle. he can still win. we've said it time and time again. we'll keep saying it. but my gosh, just a miserable week for him. what are they talking about in boston? what's their next step? are they in a bunker, or do they understand they've got to make some dramatic changes? >> well, i think they all should read peggy noonan's column which you cited earlier, even if they don't agree with everything in it, but it's very smart in terms of what is going on. look, they think that they're still on a decent trajectory, but they know that governor romney needs to step up his game. i think mike's absolutely right, one of the worst things about his performance on that video is that he doesn't come off as

optimistic. and mike's also right, he's hard to understand, the irony is i find him to be one of the most optimistic politicians i've ever covered when he's being natural. i don't think he was necessarily representing himself during that fund-raiser the way he truly is, but he does have big ideas. and the obama people agree with this. they said to me yesterday one reason why this tape's getting so much coverage is because romney's not filling the vacuum with anything. he's doing one public event a day, maybe one interview a day, doing mostly closed fund-raisers. he hasn't changed the narrative in a month positive direction. he must change things in a more positive direction, and that's what they're counting on in the first debate. >> you're only doing one event a day, it's because your staff is scared to get you out there. one a day. >> which is a problem. >> or you just don't like to? >> or it's based upon the assumption you can win an election by essentially making it a referendum on the incumbent, and that strategy is not going to be enough.

you've got to give a positive case for the alternative. >> i agree. they need to read the peggy noonan editorial and readjust. keith ellison joins us, chuck todd, academy award winner denzel washington and the discovery channel's micke rowe. up next, sam stein. first here's nbc meteorologist dylan dreyer. >> it sure was a noisy night last night with storms moving across the east coast. it was a powerful cold front, brought some areas wind gusts up to 40 to 60 miles per hour. now, you can see the starting to cool off on the backside of that front, so it is going to feel like fall as we go through this last week of summer. can you believe it? there's that rain exiting the east coast. it will still hang on across boston and northern new england through the morning, but you will see improvements through the rest of the day. also another minor cold front moving through minnesota. that's just going to knock back

temperatures a little bit. a closer look at the rain. you can see it is exiting cape cod. new york city, we're starting to dry things out. we'll see increasing sunshine here as well. temperatures around 71 and then lower 70s down in the nation's capital. and then tomorrow, temperatures taking on that full-like feel. highs across the northeast in the 60s and 70s. the rest of the country looks pretty comfortable. the weather staying quiet across most of the region. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. with the spark miles card from capital one,

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♪ [ male announcer ] introducing a stunning work of technology. introducing the entirely new lexus es. and the first-ever es hybrid. this is the pursuit of perfection. ♪ what does mitt wear to bed? >> really? really? >> i didn't write the question, man. i promise, i didn't write the question. >> yes, he did. >> i think the best answer is as little as possible.

>> what is your biggest pet peeve with each other? >> he doesn't like the way i squeeze the toothpaste. >> oh, that's right. >> you don't go to the bottom and -- >> it's just random. >> and she leaves the top off. that's exactly right. >> she's busy. >> the most serious question of all. honey boo boo or snooki? >> do you know who either of these two people are? >> yes, we do. >> i'm kind of a snooki fan. >> had a baby now. >> look how tiny she's gotten. she's lost weight and she's energetic. i mean, just her spark-plug personality's kind of fun. >> there you go. i mean, he knew about snooki. >> that was a legit answer. he knew about the weight loss. she's a spark plug. he's right. everything he could is factually correct. >> okay. >> as little as possible. >> shut up. it's not worth it. >> ew. >> really?

>> boxers or briefs? as little as possible. >> like snooki. >> he likes snooki. personally, how do you not go for honey boo boo? >> he's three years behind. you go with honey boo boo. >> the "chicago tribune." 350,000 students will be allowed back into classrooms this morning. >> teachers are going to work today. that's great. >> after union delegates voted to end the seven-day walkout. public schoolteachers who are already some of the highest paid in the country will get an average raise of 17% over four years. chicago mayor rahm emanuel called the settlement an honest compromise. >> so mike, who's running pr for unions these days? >> oh, wow! >> after wisconsin and after chicago, are they just trying to kill the union movement in america? >> you know, once again, you get back to do we know the history of anything in this country? the union movement has done so

much for this country. >> no doubt. >> over the last 70, 80 years. and to see it now dissipate because because of, you know, what happens in a few select states and a few select people. it's pretty sad. >> if we want a strong middle class, we need strong unions, and they seem to be committing suicide politically. this study indicates more than half the people in the states will be obese by 2030. two-thirds of americans are already overweight or obese. at this rate health care costs could skyrocket by billions and billions of dollars. cost estimates for treating obesity in the u.s. are about as high as $210 billion a year. willie, obviously, a very, very easy answer. >> two-thirds? >> it's an amazing set of numbers about where we're headed in terms of this crisis. >> did you see the chart? right there, you want to lose some weight? start smoking. >> are you making fun of me? i wouldn't. it's a serious story. >> i'm hungry.

but the pie chart makes me hungry, though. look at this. >> lemon meringue. >> lemon meringue and blueberry. but smoking offsets that obesity. >> it's true. >> i mean, it's medicine. doctors have said it. >> okay. >> since 1951. >> you know what? just for that, alex, let's just officially say this right now on the record. we're going to do an hour on this. is that okay, alex? >> on blueberry pies? i like blueberry pies. willie, it's time for -- >> done. >> political moment. >> let's go to washington, political editor for the huffington post, sam stein. your favorite pie, serve. what's your favorite pie? >> i'm impartial to apple. it's kind of boring but i like apple pie. >> that's okay. back to basics. banana cream's pretty good, too. you've got a piece up right now talking about the obama campaign and its media strategy targeting these kind of niche audiences.

who are they going after? because we've heard the president on sports talk radio, for example. what's he doing? >> you know, myth romneyitt rom the only one that can talk snooki with kelly and michael. he's doing under-the-radar spanish radio, sports radio. we've got at least 26 instances where he's gone on these stations, and he doesn't really talk politics. he talks nicki minaj, the pimp with the limp from miami. >> that's big. >> what a nickname. it's a calculated effort by them to reach new audiences. i don't know how i segue from pimp with a limp, but it's a calculated effort to reach new audiences. >> can i ask you, sam, what audience exactly is the president trying to reach by talking to the pimp with a limp? >> it's funny, we assume that a lot of people watch "morning joe," we assume everyone watches "way too early." so he wants to get outside of that medium.

>> how wonderful, really. >> and sam, how's your standing request for an interview with the president? >> it's still standing, but beyond that, it hasn't happened yet, thank you, obama white house. we'll go back to that later. >> sam, they did give the pimp with a limp -- >> stop it. >> -- an interview. no, no, seriously, the thing is, there is less access to both of these presidential candidates than any year. and we've got president obama talking to the pimp with a limp, and you've got mitt romney talking about squeezing toothpaste. the president goes -- i mean -- >> as little as possible. >> that's the point, right? i mean, the point is on the one hand, you're going to open yourself up to mockery and plain-old mockery for doing these types of interviews because they're softball interviews. on the other hand, they feel perfectly comfortable taking the mockery because they think that it's important to use these outlets to reach different audiences who may not be politically active or engaged.

>> yet they won't get interviews with serious journalists. >> mitt romney did finally go on "meet the press" a couple weeks ago. we should give him that. >> he said he supported parts of obamacare. >> sam, thanks so much. next, a little sports. the orioles and mariners wrapped up an 18-inning game 2 1/2 hours ago. >> you can't beat them. >> they're unbeatable. this is getting annoying. >> they just win. >> they don't lose. >> 14 straight. >> highlights next in sports. >> do you know they haven't lost a walkoff game all year. >> all year. >> all year. jerry says hi. >> hello, joe. hello, mika. hello, mike. >> hello, mike. >> i love you. >> i'm not that much of a viewer. i just happened to click through. but my thoughts are that it's great to see these guys on for five years considering they

don't do a hell of a lot except run around new york and take still pictures of themselves, and they have a lot of great guests. it's a great show. [ giggling ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ]

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is this our foreign policy

segment for richard? >> well, it is in seattle. >> that's a long way away from new york. >> almost to russia at this point. talking baseball now. the orioles, baltimore orioles, began the day yesterday a half game back of the yankees. yankees rained out last night. in order for baltimore to claim a share in the a.l. east, they had to outlast the mariners in a game that literally ended three hours ago? i'm looking at the clock, about three hours ago. top of the ninth, o's down 2-0, two men on. chris davis comes through with a base hit. two runs come around. that ties the game in the ninth inning. the mariners had been looking to close it out. orioles come back to tie it. extra innings now. we're going to jump ahead to the 18th inning. credit the people still in the seats for this one. this is two full major league baseball games. top of the 18th. taylor teagarden hitting .152, drops one down the right field line. run scores. orioles add another one, and they win a six-hour marathon, 4-2. that pulls them even now. >> nobody in that stadium.

>> tied for the lead once again. 18 innings. >> so the orioles always win. what are the stats? >> i got them for you. ready for this? their 14th consecutive extra-inning victory, the most since the indians in 1949. the yankees play the blue jays this afternoon. the orioles rest up to play again. they just don't lose. the orioles have not lost a walkoff game this season. the only team in baseball not to lose. and they just keep coming, mike. >> they just keep winning. how about that buck showalter? >> meanwhile, the yankees tied for the lead. they make the playoffs, they back into it. we don't want that one-game wild card. i've got a clip from college football. i want you to watch and look what the tide did to arkansas. arkansas started the season ranked number eight. opened the season losing to louisiana-monroe. >> right. >> on saturday, blown out of their own stadium by alabama 52-0. so here's arkansas head coach john l. smith, maybe starting to lose a little bit. talking to the press this week.

>> let's go! you guys act like it's -- pick it up a little bit. okay? get your chin up. smile! smile! okay? dang. you guys -- all right? if not, i'm not talking! >> my goodness gracious. >> we should say that was not a locker room speech. he was talking to members of the press to get their chins up. >> see what you did? >> coach. >> no, i like it. >> i like him. >> i like him. >> i think he's going to be a great assistant coach next year. >> he's only two games in, by the way. >> yeah, i know. you know, they actually would have -- would have only had one loss if the quarterback hadn't gone out against louisiana-monroe. boy, you know what, though, alabama just crushed them every quarter of that game. >> arkansas thought they'd come

in 1-0, maybe beat alabama and go into the national championship picture. now who knows? >> what we said at the beginning, we thought arkansas was going to be the tough game this year, not lsu. half of lsu's players are suspended. i think smack. >> is it smack? >> look, i don't do details. >> it's in here somewhere. november 3rd. in baton rouge. it's going to be a ball game. >> i'm hoping they have at least a quorum by the time we get there. i hope they have at least 11 players. >> they'll find 11. when we come back, we'll bring in congressman keith ellison. keep it on "morning joe." >> here's some foreign policy for you. >> now we're talking. capella university understands rough economic times

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joining us now here in the studio, democratic congressman from minnesota, representative keith ellison. >> and it's very exciting. the congressman is going to tell us how the twins are going to end up playing in the world series, right? >> i've got a feeling i'm going to have a tough time with that one. >> it's not going to happen. now, congressman, you're the only muslim in congress. >> there's two. >> there's two. >> as i said, you're one of two muslims in congress. and i was trying to say you were the first elected muslim in congress. >> that's true. >> t.j. was giving me bad information in my ear. so anyway -- >> thanks, t.j. >> we're looking at what's going on across the world, especially across the middle east in the arab world. you told me a fascinating story about going to egypt. >> right, right. >> and the response that you got. >> well, you know, i went there, i met with some friends of mine who were born there but had spent time in the united states. we went to tahrir square around 7:00 in the evening, talked at

least until 1:00 in the morning. >> and they knew you were an american congressman. >> yeah. >> sat there, being respectful. >> i was kind of freaked out when my friends told the crowd in arabic, this guy is an american congressman. he'll answer your questions. i was, like, we didn't have any security, but it really wasn't a problem. we fielded questions from folks, all kinds of questions from what about my job to should egypt be an islamic country to, you know, is the united states supporting us? opposing us? just a whole range of questions. and then i also gave a speech at the medical syndicate to a packed audience. and the questions were -- they didn't screen anybody when we walked in. and yet there were a few people who jumped up and tried to disrupt. >> right. >> but you know, i just stayed cool. and the crowd sort of supported me. >> sort of stayed with you. let me ask, what did you think the other day when president obama said that the egyptians were no longer our allies, said they weren't our allies but

weren't our enemies. that was startling to me considering that they've been our key ally in the arab world now for 30 years. >> let me be clear, i'm an obama supporter. >> right. >> i wouldn't have phrased it that way. the fact is is that they're party to the camp david accords which is key to our interests in the region. >> yeah. >> you know, a country of 85 million people that borders africa, the middle east, asia, europe. i mean, they need to be our allies. if they're not, we'd better make them our allies right away. >> i think the president is on to so much. so much is changing. you can't assume like you did before. there isn't predictability. much of the arab countries going through this turbulence, we need to have very conditional relationships. we ought to say we will be supportive of you if you respect these issues central to us. but if you're not going to fulfill your obligations and protect our embassies, be a partner against terror, be a

supporter of peace with israel, then our relationships will suffer. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> do you think that's what he was getting at? >> i think ultimately we're moving that way with those countries, with pakistan. i actually think this is increasingly going to be the framework for foreign policy around the world. we're entering a period of history we're simply not going to have this degree of structure or predictability more. a lot of countries are going to fall in between. >> if you do that, other countries have a way of doing that, too. i think if you want to build strong alliances, you have to demonstrate that you're in for the partnership, too. and once you start acting conditional with egypt, egypt will act conditional with you. >> egypt's already started acting conditional. >> i think it's way too early to tell. this is a country that for decades we supported mubarak. oppressive dictator. we knew he was. and now all of a sudden they try to have an emerging movement. they say we're conditional on you now. i don't agree with you now. >> the united states, for example, should not at the imf

say you're going to have $4.8 billion no matter what. we ought to say we will support the imf only if you do certain things politically and economically. >> richard, let me ask you a week later, there was a lot of concern about morsi early on not coming out making strong statements, the muslim brotherhood not coming out strong enough making statements condemning the attacks. where are we a week later? has he moved more in our direction? >> somewhat but the muslim brotherhood has somewhat of an identity problem. it's the head of the government. it's also now you've got a movement in egypt, and you've got a party. and the question is how is mr. morsi going to act? he acted very well when he went to iran. he was very tough. the comments he made in iran were really good. but again, they were slow off the mark to react and we'll see. i think what we have to have is a wait-and-see attitude. we would love to be partners with egypt, but i don't think we can assume it's going to work out and we can't give them a blank check. >> congressman, americans have

asked themselves i think since september 11th why do they hate us? it's not a great question because it implies muslims hate us when we know it's a small group of radical muslims. when we watched what happened at benghazi and the embassies around the world, the question is why does that small group of muslims, radical muslims, hate sinus >> they want power. i think it's really a struggle for power, something that's going on in nearly every country across the region. in libya, you have a huge number of people who are out with signs professing their support for not just chris stevens who lost his life, you know, supporting peace and our relationship, but you have them saying, look, we apologize. same thing in several other countries. many of the leaders have expressed the same sentiments. and so i think we need to understand that as our country has local dynamics, these countries have local dynamics, too. and you have an emerging democratic movement. you also have these old regime loyalists, soccer thugs in the

case of egypt, and even these, you know, more religious extreme elements where they're jockeying for power. >> what is it about america? why do they attack so violently, these groups? >> america is a symbol, right? america is a symbol. look who's keeping it up now. nasrallah in lebanon saying go out, protest. this guy is a supporter of bash bashar al assad, he grew up the barracks in lebanon, al qaeda in yemen. it is the most reactionary elements that are still trying to drive this thing and exploit this stupid disrespectful movie. and so, i mean, i think we've got to understand, you know, we are -- what we're basically doing is saying groups that are as disparate as the tea party and occupy movement, we're just saying oh, they're all arabs, all libyans, no, they're not. there are different elements at work here, and we need to know

that. >> sam stein, jump in. >> congressman, i want to ask you about israel/palestine. one of the things recorded in that private mitt romney fund-raiser was pretty blunt words about the prospects of a peace deal. he said it's almost unthinkable, that they've got to kick the can down the road if you were president. why is he wrong? isn't that just sort of an assessment of reality? >> no, i think he's wrong and i think it's dangerous to express those kind of opinion ifs you're going to be the president of the united states. our president needs to be optimistic about the prospect for peace. the president needs to try to bring the parties together. they need to talk about how the need to, you know, to make sure israel is secure. but at the same time, make sure the palestinians have a real shot at a state. and once the president throws his hands up and says, it's never going to happen, forget about it, i think that the whole region -- >> hasn't obama essentially done that? he's sort of disengaged from the peace process after entering with such gus tto? >> i don't agree. i think he tried hard in the beginning, ran against optimism.

>> richard, real quick. >> governor romney's right to be properly skeptical, but you can't leave it at that. no one benefits from the situation, not israel, not the palestinians, not the united states. and the question is how we can once again get things going in what is admittedly the worst possible context for peacemaking. >> congressman keith ellison, thank you very much for coming into the studio. good to have you here with us. >> one of two muslims in the united states congress. still ahead, we're going to bring in denzel washington, tina brown, chuck todd and harold ford jr. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] if you stash tissues like a squirrel stashes nuts, you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® liquid gels. nothing starts working faster than zyrtec® at relieving your allergy symptoms for 24 hours. zyrtec®. love the air. at relieving your allergy symptoms for 24 hours. even better than we did before ♪ yeah prep yourself america we're back for more ♪

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up next, the editor of "newsweek" and "the daily beast" tina brown joins us on set. also an uninvited guest standing talking to her at this moment. is that donny? oh, boy. keep it on "morning joe." ♪

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others have said that you just kissed after the electorate good-bye this election year, that you've all but called them moochers. did you? >> no, i'm talking about a perspective of individuals who i'm not likely to get to support me. i recognize that those people who are not paying income tax are going to say gosh, this provision that mitt keeps talking about, lowering income taxes, that's not going to be real attractive to them. and those that are dependent upon government and those that think government's job is to redistribute, i'm not going to get them. i don't expect to get 60% or 70% of the vote. i understand that some portion will be the president's. some portion will be mine. i've got to get as many as i can from every single cohort in this country. >> he was obviously inarticulate in making this point. i think he would have said it differently, that's for sure, but the point still stands.

we have too many people dependent on government because of the poor economic policies of the obama administration. >> it is the top of the hour. a live look at the white house in washington, d.c. welcome back to "morning joe." richard haass is still with us in new york along with mark halperin in chicago. and joining the table, the chairman of deutsche incorporated -- >> big. >> -- donny deutsch. we also have the editor in chief of "newsweek" magazine and "the daily beast," tina brown. the new issue of the magazine is on, quote, muslim rage. >> we'll be talking about that in a second. donny first. listen, you know, let's play against tide, and i'm dead serious here. i'm coming to you. i'm running the romney campaign. what do i do to turn things around? it has been a miserable run since the convention. you have a lot of people on the left cackling. even conservatives are coming out saying some terrible things about mitt romney. what does mitt romney do?

there's still 50 days. you've got hundreds of millions in advertising. you've got three presidential debates. what's the big idea to save this campaign? >> i'm going to say something i don't think i've ever said on this show. i don't know. because there's -- you know, we talk about the word "campaign." and it's very hard to separate the campaign and the person. and we've seen the soul of this person. >> okay. you've got to do something. there's always an answer. >> here's what i do. i go all in. and i take the 47, and i double down on it. i say, you know what? what i said -- and i said it, to use paul ryan's term, inelegantly, the wrong way to say it. the point i was making -- and i want to make it even louder now -- is that something's got to give. something's got to give on entitlement. something's got to give -- >> right. >> because i'm so passionate about it, i said it the wrong way. anybody who knows me knows me well enough to know what i meant is this. and i'm glad it's on the table now. and let's roll with it. >> so we're creating a

dependency state, almost half of americans don't pay income taxes. our entitlement systems are breaking down. >> something has got to give. >> so embrace this. >> you have to. >> turn it into a positive. >> you have to go on and say you know what? sometimes when you know something is so wrong, you can overstate it. and anybody who knows me knows that i care and i care deeply about this country and every person. what i am saying -- and president obama in the first debate -- what i'm saying is this. and what i'm saying is we are a dependent country. we are a weak country. and i need to turn it around. and president obama, you put nuss this position. >> and you turn to president obama saying 30 million people were on food stamps when you became president. now it's 46 million. maybe you can kick it off that way. but there was such negativity to how he said it, a lack of optimism. >> what's missing is one, you can't be that selective, go after everything, talk about tax expenditures, charitable deductions, home mortgage deductions, go after the subsidies for various kinds of tobacco farmers.

basically talk about everyone. you can't just single out quote, unquote, the 47%, and then talk about the america this will get us. talk about how this will stimulate economic growth. and this will be in, in the end, good. >> i think we have to draw the line. >> i disagree. >> by the way, i think what he said was complete suicide, but i do think you have to draw a stark line. you can't now step back and go, let's embrace. you've got to create that rift that he was basically saying all along. >> at this point, the contrast, i think you're right, he's got to embrace it. >> michael on the daily beast said if you marinate cheap whiskey long enough, the stench will accrue. this is really about the fact that romney has again and again tried -- first of all, he doesn't know what he believes, it seems, and nor do we. we don't know who romney is. >> you'd better say who you are. >> secondly, this is what he's done by marinating himself in the tea party views to the point that he's now saying extraordinary and ridiculous things. i almost think at this point he

needs to take his mask off and do an address. on campaigns you have to say stuff you don't believe simply because you're trying to appeal to a crazy base. this is not what i believe. take the mask off. what else is he going to do? >> i think you have to pivot on it. on the core of what you know he was trying to say, but the thing -- i want to bring up one other point. i want to attach this to the end of the occupy wall street movement. i've said before this country votes for a rich person, they'll never vote for a wall street rich person. and i think what he said is in the hearts of a lot of people on wall street. it's sad to say. what he said -- there's a difference in this country, rich people and wall street rich people, and there is a disconnect there. and i think what he said i've heard out of a lot of people's mouths, and that's the sad thing. >> mark halperin, one of the bigger problems has to do with the fact that conservatives now are speaking out strongly against mitt romney. bill kristol had a devastating column yesterday in "the weekly standard."

peggy noonan as well. this is what bill kristol said in the piece called "a note on romney's arrogant and stupid remarks." "it's worth recalling that a good chunk of the 47% are romney supporters especially of course seniors as well as many lower-income americans as well as men and women serving in the military who think conservative policies are better forethe country even if they're not getting a tax cut under the romney plan." he goes on to ask, and this is devastatingly accurate, "has there been a presidential race in modern times featuring two candidates who have done so little over their lifetimes for our country and who have so little substance to say about the future of our country." "the wall street journal" went on and was critical this morning. peggy noonan critical this morning. it seems that the conservative base is starting to flee, mark halperin. what does he do? >> well, to build on what donny said -- and i believe between us, we're on as many winning

presidential campaigns as bob shrum, so we know what we're talking about. >> hey, i worked on the clinton campaign. >> all right. so one more than bob shrum. good point. i think he's frittered away a lot of opportunities, but i still think his strongest argument which would find appeal from a lot of people including mark mckinnon writing in "the daily beast" now calling romney a deeply cynical man, it's hard to argue that the president is really well positioned to meet the challenges we mace starting in january with the fiscal cliff after four years of what he's done. the president's got an argument to make, but i think that's romney's strongest argument. he doesn't have a great argument based on laying down a predicate to say he's be stronger, but i think saying does the middle class want four more years of what we've had for the last four years is his strongest arguments and taking on the fiscal cliff and the big debt and deficit issues that he does care so much about. but he's running out of time to do it because the press right now, i think, would take a narrative of romney's taking charge of his own campaign.

he's talking about what he really believes in. he should tell his fund-raisers, sorry, i'm not spending my day going to four fund-raisers. we've got enough money if i have a good message, so that's it. other than people go to the fund-raisers. i don't anticipate him doing any of that, but to me that's where the direction would be, take charge of his campaign before it's too late. >> let's look where the polls stand. these were taken before the videotape was released. so it will be interesting to see the effect of that. and new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. the direction of the country. in a head-to-head mautchup, obaa leads by 5 points, 50-45%. also for the first time since march, president obama's job approval has reached the 50% mark. 48% disapprove. on the direction of the country, 39% said the country was headed in the right direction. 55% say it's on the wrong track.

7% improvement from last month. on the economy, 42% say the economy will get better in the next 12 months. that's the highest number this poll question has seen in 2 1/2 years. and when asked which candidate is best to handle the economy, president obama is now tied with romney, 43-43. >> and that is devastating. it's the first time it's happened. this is mitt romney's one area where he was in good stead. there are other polls, mark, as you've stated, that show a close race. but you go state to state to state, you look at ohio, the romney people will tell you they're in trouble there. and suddenly his pathway to 270 becomes more difficult. you're, though, trying to figure out how he gets to 270 even without ohio. how does he do it? >> well, it's possible. and again, i'm not saying this is a likely outcome, and i'm not saying -- and it involves a lot of state where's he's currently behind. but if you accept the premise that michigan and pennsylvania are not going to come into play

and that ohio and virginia, if you look at the public polling and as you said talk to republicans, that those are very tough states for him right now. there is a way to get to exactly 270 without ohio and virginia. it involves winning colorado -- >> wisconsin right now, down in colorado, down in virginia, according to the latest polls, but go ahead. >> he'd have to win basically five states where he's currently down. new hampshire, wisconsin, iowa, nevada, colorado. if he won those and he held north carolina and all the mccain states, that gets him to exactly 270. i'll say again, he's got to win states he's behind. but one must ask the question, can he win without ohio and virginia? and the answer is yes. he barely can. but it doesn't involve coming back in some other places. >> i want to just do a little work session with you and go back to what we talked about because the more i think about it, i actually think there's an opportunity to seize on rage, for lack of a better word and to

once again say what i said yesterday i said it the wrong way, but you know what? i'm glad i opened the door because this is what this means. this country is going down. i am mad that 47% and the other 53%, nobody wants to give on anything. and it's time. and i'm the one who's going to make the hard choices where the president has not. kind of kick up the rage out of it. i know it's a bold move. it's his only shot. >> not just a rage move, but you could actually take the same approach margaret thatcher took in 1975 when she took over the conservative party. does england want to be a dependency culture? >> exactly. >> a society of dependence or an opportunity society? and thatcher was able to say damn it, don't listen to what everybody's telling you. i'm telling you, britain, there's a better way. and people followed her. >> there's a huge difference. margaret thatcher was consistent. she was clear. >> yes. >> and she was who she was on the record, and she was who she was off the record. >> that's my point.

we saw it behind the scenes. we saw the oz, the curtains being parted. so now say, okay, at the end of the day, this is what people saw, seize the moment. >> but romney is no thatcher. >> listen, i mean, look at how many serial gaffes then add up to the portrait of a character. because we know people don't listen to arguments. they listen to sound bites. they listen to an accumulated portrait of a candidate that keep keeps emerging in different ways. what we've seen a stumble at the convention. >> hold on, donny. >> we've seen a stumble convention. we have seen something i thought revealed not just a gaffe but character. he left out the troops out of his speech at the convention. as usual. republicans make hay with the troops, use the flag, you know, celebrate the flag and then they actually forget about the troops. >> that was -- >> that was a very bad gaffe. it may have been stuart, but he read it. >> you wonder, mark, why mitt romney didn't stop and say, hey, where the hell's the mention of the troops? why aren't we talking about

afghanistan? >> exactly. >> but mark, you had a point. >> well, i totally agree with what donny said, but then lea n leavened by optimism. we can start in january. i think if he harnesses the anger and freshens it up and fixes it up a bit, i think that's, as donny said, an opportunity and a pretty decent message and i'll go back to it's something he truly believes. he truly believes we can do better, but that he's truly angry about the direction the country has gone. >> and conservatives truly believe and there's the thing that sometimes is missed in some media reporting, we truly believe that if you tax job creators, that hurts people looking for jobs. i really don't give a damn about the 1% because i've met enough of them to know, they've got all the tax attorneys they need. they've got all the accountants. they're going to be fine. i am worried about the guy that's driving a bus part time

because he's lost his job or the 52, 53-year-old ad executive that's been out of work for three or four years. i mean, the problem is is maybe romney's so isolated, he doesn't know these people. >> he doesn't. he only knows nascar team owners. >> the one word i disagree with in this conversation is anger. i don't think you get elected president of the united states by tapping into anger. it's got to be optimistic. but there is a lot of disquiet. a lot of americans know there's something wrong. we know we can't keep going on the way we are. whether it's the deficit, something we've talked about, whether it's afghanistan. we know in the public space there's lots that needs fixing. it's not anger. but i think privately lots of americans know this country isn't on the right track, but there's still an innate optimism that we can turn it around. it's that duality of the message that has to be there. >> tina, the front page of "newsweek" talks about muslim rage. talk about the cover. why the cover story on muslim rage? >> because we saw a week an

extraordinary disquieting week where a stray sound bite video that had been made by a bigot inflamed, again, the middle east in ways that no one expected this time. it was, again, an absolutely unexpected display of how angry and engaged, it seems, still so much of the muslim population is, ending in the death of an american. this seemed to us a very important topic. of course, ali who wrote the piece has herself been a victim of that. she was involved in a situation where she made a film in holland, and her collaborator was stabbed to death in the streets. and she had a fatwa on her herself. she wrote about it from the point of view of someone who has lived through that experience of muslim rage and had to live with police protection for many years. >> and the savagery, we just don't understand. so many of us in america just don't understand the savagery, the hatred, the unbridled contempt for america. >> a big part of arab and muslim history for decades now or

longer has a sense of humiliation. their place in the world, their place in their own countries and so forth. a lot of it spills over. >> over the last two, three centuries. >> there's a lot of that. and the united states is the target of it. >> by the way, can we say historically for people that don't know the history of the muslim world, historically -- and somebody made this point i think in "the wall street journal" a couple days ago that in the muslim world, they were offended by such slights. it's been the past two to three centuries since there's been a decline that has coincided with the rise of the west that we've had these problems. >> that's all true. and even more recently, countries like egypt, after world war ii, had larger gdps than the chinas of the world. the middle east has lost ground. the arab world has lost ground so there's a lot of resentment. in the middle east, the old order has disappeared. no new order has taken its place. so you have this kind of social chaos.

there's a widespread lack of success. there's a widespread sense of frustration. not surprisingly, it gets expressed. >> richard haass, thank you very much. tina brown, thank you as well. >> thank you, tina. >> happy birthday, "morning joe." >> thank you. >> my goodness. >> i just wish that you didn't have the best dinner party in town that required hair and makeup at 5:00 in the morning. >> i know. >> trust me, it's exhausting. >> you know how many hours early i have to get up early to put this together? >> she's right, the best dinner party in town that requires hair and makeup at 5:00 in the morning. >> it's true. >> did you just think of that, tina? >> i just was thinking this morning as i was blow drying. >> more of a salon. >> salon dinner party, whatever. >> happy new year. >> thank you so much. we're going to talk to academy award winner denzel washington. and next, chuck todd, harold ford jr. and howard fineman join the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. joe, actually, i was coming

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hello, i'm mitt romney. and tonight i'd like to talk to the american people about recent developments that have damaged my presidential campaign and portrayed me in a negative light. developments that to some make me seem unfit to be president. i'm talking, of course, about the way my hair looks right now. slightly askew, and i know it looks bad. to the american people, i say i'm sorry. i burned through my last tube can of alberto vo5 mousse the other day, and this consort for men hairspray ain't maintaining

my mane. ha ha. i'd also like to address the controversy surrounding remarks that i made at a republican fund-raiser earlier this year, something to the effect of me not caring about 47% of the country because they're all basically freeloaders sucking off the teat of the rich. now, i know what you're thinking. teat of the rich? let's leave kate middleton out of this. ha, ha, ha. >> her with us now from washington, nbc news chief white house correspondent, chuck todd. he literally works 'round the clock. he's on television all the time. >> that is not true. >> all the time. >> we also have msnbc political analyst, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. the aol huffington post media group. >> huffington post media group. >> huffington post media group. thank you so much for being with us. >> i love being here.

>> let's start, chuck, you've got some poll numbers. i've got to say the most surprising one to me right now is that mitt romney's lead on who would handle the economy best completely erased. very ominous news. >> what happened? >> for the romney campaign. >> no, look, the way i tell people to read this poll is think about what the two -- what the initial goals were for obama at his convention, romney at his. obama wanted to make the case that his policies were working. things are on the right track, right? romney's goal at his convention was to improve his likability. well, look at our poll. all of this progress obama made on the economy, when it comes to he had an eight-point jump in people thinking the country's headed in the right track. all of a sudden he pulls oon with who's best to handle the economy. we asked a question about who is best capable of dealing with the issues for the next four years. obama led by 11 points on that. and then you look at romney's likability number. and he's still upside down.

joe, 13 straight nbc/"wall street journal" polls where more people have told us they have a negative view, then a positive view of mitt romney. >> so -- and these polls obviously taken before this videotape dust-up. >> before the video dust-up. >> is this something that's only in the echo chamber or is what i'm thinking possibly, you know, potentially the problem for him that will really hurt in terms of likability and a number of other areas for mitt romney? >> well, let's say it does impact. i guess my theory is that you won't see much of a change. if you believe that the president is, quote, opened up this sort of three to five-point lead nationally and has a small but substantial lead in the swing states, well, then any of those voters that have already moved -- you know, who's left there? i don't know if it moves -- i mean, i've always thought the president has sort of a low ceiling. and he may be approaching it now. so who's left? so what this could do is cement -- you may not see

movement in polls to prove it, but the thing that romney's got to worry about is does this video cement things in place, or is there still fluidity left? right? is there still some of those wayward independents that could be persuadable. >> howard, you've done many of these things. it's very easy in september to say boy, it looks like this race is over. there are three debates left. romney's people have hundreds of millions of dollars to run on ads, to get out the vote. he's got 48, 49 days. is it over? >> no. >> that's the easiest question. okay. >> no. >> but is there -- why is it that conservatives are so concerned, the bill kristols, the peggy noonans, i've been concerned for some time that this campaign seems so directionless? >> because it is. >> whose fault is that? >> it's mitt romney's fault. any campaign is an extension of the one in charge.

and mitt romney, if nothing else, is in charge of his own campaign. he decided -- >> is he sort of -- more of a control freak in. >> yes, he is, more than you might realize. i think if you know his business record, you would know that that's true. he's a detailed guy. they decided at the very beginning, and by "they," mitt romney and stuart stevens, his main strategist, at least until now, we'll see what happens the last seven weeks -- >> let me ask you about that. is stuart stevens a scapegoat or just a yes-man? >> they were a team and i think still are. and i think stuart's and mitt's basic conception of this campaign was we are going to win by relentlessly pointing out the weakness of the american economy and president obama's failures to live up to all the promises he made on the economy. both of those are powerful arguments, but they're not enough. mitt liked this strategy because it allowed him to not do the things that he doesn't like to

do. he doesn't like to talk about himself. he doesn't like to talk about ideology because he's had many. he doesn't like to talk about his religion because in 2008, he talked about mormanism, and it was an unpleasant experience. so he liked the fact that stuart said, you can win this campaign just by talking about the economy -- >> talk about the other guy. >> talk about the other guy. only talk about the other guy. that was their strategic doctrine from the beginning, and they have been shaped or misshapen by that ever since. >> by the way, is basically historically the winning formula. they forgot two things, though. that this is the first president that regardless of what was happening with the economy, people still liked him as a person, and secondarily, people never liked romney. >> at this point, the romney campaign has to do something. when you have bill kristol, peggy noonan, "the wall street

journal" once a week saying -- >> please, for the love of god. >> there are conservatives who made bill kristol, oh, or peggy noonan. when "the wall street journal" editorial page -- joe scarborough, whoever sticks their head out and says there's a problem with the romney campaign, there will be a segment saying, forget about it. when "the wall street journal" editorial page focuses their sights on you and says guys, you'd better start saying something or you're going to lose, that's a serious problem. >> you and i both know, 48, 49 days left in a campaign is a long time. two, he's got to provide details to whatever he was trying to say before that group of fund-raisers there in florida. i do agree with donny, they did not factor in that this president is likeable, that people still root for this president. but i do think on the face of it, there's still plenty of time to turn this around. now, if you're president obama, now is the time to double down and continue to make the case about why your next four years will be better. >> that's a problem.

and this is what's so maddening -- hold on. let me make my point. let me make my point first. no, i don't want you to. >> no. >> i just do want to explain at this point that's what's so frustrating to conservatives. barack obama is saying absolutely nothing. >> he's saying nothing. >> nothing. that convention speech, as our good friend pat buchanan said, was the biggest, fastest nothing burger never delivered. he's saying nothing. he's got no vision. he's exhausted intellectually, and yet mitt romney seems more exhausted. >> i believe whichever one of these guys goes first and lays out a narrative in a detailed way where we're going to go in the next four years it at an advantage. president obama's not done it fully yet. with romney distracted having to explain everything from his comments about the middle east to what he meant before that group of fund-raisers, it gives the president a unique opportunity to lay out the next four years where we go, the polling from nbc/"wall street journal," one of the most illuminating and interesting

things it said was people believe this president can handle the economy better, and they like his vision for the next four years better by a small margin. >> oh, good lord. chuck todd, what's that vision? >> chuck knows the numbers. >> no, joe, i'm with you. i mean, he hasn't laid it out other than, hey, i'm not done. it's the same thing. hey, the fever will break. i don't understand -- no, no. >> that's the only point i'm making. >> get your point! >> i'm just trying to finish my point. >> you have five times. hold on a second. this is like the last "lord of the rings." the movie keeps ending. okay, we got it. >> i never saw the ending. >> he's still going. >> did harold get his point in? i just want to make sure. >> he got his point in. go ahead, chuck. >> no, what other way to sort of looked to me where you think the race would be, look at the president's approval rating, and look at the split between approve/disapprove.

you know, a president running for re-election and his actual ballot position, they converge. and notice he's at 50 in the matchup with romney, 50 on approval. look at the missing here three points. if you will for mitt romney, the 48% disapprove, you sit there, and romney's sitting at 45%. i think that missing ingredient there is that he's not closed the sale. those are those last -- you know, that's just to catch up to where it should be on election day, right? that's where it would be if the election were held today, the election would be 50-48%, obama would win by a narrow two points. we'd say it was a very close election, but what's missing? he's got to shave off a point or two from the president to win this thing, and it's these wayward independents. and at this point when does romney do it? you know, is he really going to put it all in the first debate? at this point that's what they think. that's the theory of the romney case. >> this is the first time -- and chuck knows this very well, we

all do -- this is the first time in a long time barack obama's been at 50%. timing's everything. we kept saying how this is a president who's been there for 3 1/2 years, not reached 50%. he did. >> so, then, back to the question of how to turn this around, is there any example, any precedent of barring outside circumstances that could dramatically change things against obama? yes, in some way. where have we seen a candidate have to undergo a complete personality overhaul? which is what he needs. >> i can't remember any time in recent memory when that's happened. >> isn't that the kind of take? >> the problem with waiting for -- >> why is '88 an exact analogy? a lot of people like to talk about '88. >> because in '88, you had george h.w. bush essentially and eventually reconnecting with the power of ronald reagan. he turned it into the third term of the reagan presidency. and because ronald reagan was

popular, that ended up carrying him. and also mike dukakis ended up -- >> no barack obama. >> -- no barack obama on the likability front. a couple things have happened here. one is that in some places and in some ways the economy has improved. if you look carefully at the numbers from the second and third quarter in terms of real household personal income growth, which sounds like a dry number, but it's very important, it was like 3%, 3.5% growth over the second and third quarter. and the people who study that kind of thing say that was very important in terms of determining the outcome of the election. so with some people, the economy is better. the other thing is, it's a choice. an election is a choice. and right now mitt romney is just not a viable alternative for enough people. it's not over, but you can hear the door -- >> it is over. >> what do you think's going to happen october 3rd that we haven't seen already? >> chuck, it's not over. it's far from over. >> not only that, but i have two

more recent examples. number one is, with this point in time, john kerry looked like george bush was solidifying his lead. he hit 50. i'm not kidding. you look at the '04, september 2004 nbc/"wall street journal" poll and the one we released last night, it is almost identical, bush and obama's number is identical, the direction of the country, job approval rating, kerry's unfavorable rating, romney's unfavorable rating, and guess what? kerry came one one football stadium's worth of voters from becoming president of the united states. >> it's hard to reverse -- >> and al gore did go through a personality change in the last 90 days of that campaign. no, he did, he connected for the first time in his political life. >> it's just really hard to reverse the whole narrative in a debate. narrative -- debates generally reinforce the narrative, not turn them around. >> chuck, thank you. we'll see you ahead on "the daily rundown." howard fineman of the huffington post media group, thank you as

well. coming up, denzel washington joins us. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. your new light creamy potato with bacon & cheese soup says it's 100 calories a serving. that's right. in what world do potatoes, bacon and cheese add up to 100 calories? your world. my world. ♪ [ whispers ] real bacon... creamy cheese... [ whispers ] 100 calories... say it again... [ whispers ] 100 calories... ma'am, hello? ma'am [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

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joe and mika, congratulations. and in honor of your anniversary, i'm prepared to go nationally with a new campaign from this day forward, this broadcast is going to be called "morning mika." >> happy fifth anniversary to "morning joe." five years of getting up, being inspired, being energized, being gotten ready for the day, mika. oh, yeah, you were there, too, joe. >> the reverend al sharpton and tom brokaw echoing what we hear everybody, it's all about mika, mike barnicle. spokesman for the boys and girls club of america, mr. denzel washington and president and ceo of boys and girls club of america, gentlemen, thank you for being with us this morning. >> thank you. >> absolutely. great to be here. >> denzel, mike barnicle wants to only talk about "the book of eli" and its place in cinema,

but i'm going to give you a break from that and talk about the boys and girls club. i'm not sure a lot of people know your history with the boys and girls club growing up in mount vernon. why is this so important to you in >> i've been involved with the boys and girls club for 52 years. my mother took me down there when i was about 6 years old. and i loved it. i mean, it was a place not only just to play basketball or ping-pong or something, but just to learn -- i had great mentors. it was just a safe place. it was a place where they made you feel important. >> jim, i was in chicago early last week when the school strike started. and you open up the paper, and it said some kids can go to schools, but also you can go to your church. you can go to your ymca, or you can go to your chicago boys s s girls club which i thought was great for kids that needed a place to go.

how do you view the club today during a bad economy, when schools are on strike, at least they were until today. what's the role of your club? >> boys and girls clubs across the country are there for kids who need us most in america. and, you know, today and while we're in washington, d.c., is to celebrate some of our shining examples of kids that have come through tremendous challenge in their lives and become great, great americans and great kids. what we're all about is creating great futures for kids. and that relates to building academic success, good character, citizenship and healthy lifestyles. and making sure our kids graduate from high school with a plan for the future. so it is about access. and certainly the chicago example is a great one, that we respond to community needs, and we're there for the community, for families and, of course, kids who need us most in america. >> guys, harold ford jr. is with us, has a question. >> denzel, good morning and jim

clark, good morning. specifically, what can government do more and how can they leverage resources better at the local, state and federal level to increase the impact of programs that you have in place across the country to alleviate and ameliorate some of these awful numbers? three out of ten kids not graduating high school on time is an alarmi ining number. >> and thanks to our government, state and local, we do receive support to our local clubs that help with our mission and help to ensure kids have a safe, positive place to go. during the out-of-school hours whether it's during the day, in the summer, in the case of the chicago example, or after school during the school year. and so the support from the government is absolutely critical. and when i look at it, and we look at it across the nation, we're able to leverage that funding to provide these experiences, to provide great programs for kids and to help them with their academics so that they can be successful in

school. so we make that connection. and the great part about this is the return on investment. when we invest in a child, it's less than $1,000 a year, and we return anywhere from 16 to 20 times that in terms of the economic value that the community and our kids receive by being a member of the boys and girls clubs. >> donny deutsch. >> denzel, great to talk to you. you know, there's overwhelming awareness for boys and girls clubs of america. i see a picture of you as a kid on billboards around. what exactly happens when you walk through the door? can you give the audience a little detail? this is this great organization. i'm a young kid, i walk through the door. what's going on in there? >> well, one of the things you hear children talk about over and over, club members talk about over and over, is the safety of it. you know, what is their option? you know, the streets are out there. it's dangerous. they're vulnerable to all kinds of ills. and the first thing i can remember, even in my day, it wasn't as dangerous in those

days, obviously, as it is now is the safety of it, the cocoon, the fact that you feel like you belong, that you're a member of a club. i mean, young people are going to -- they're going to line up with one club or the other, from gangs to drugs to, you know, whatever it is. but the boys sk s and girls clu gives you a safe haven, a place where you feel like you belong to something, you feel like you're important. >> denzel, following up on that, you know, there are two places where a lot of young people can find the only safe place they find during the day. one is going to school. and the other is places like the boys and girls clubs. have you ever thought about what might have happened to you had you taken a right instead of a left to the boys and girls club when you were 13, 14 or 15 or however old you were? >> i can tell you, i have -- i had two or three or more friends who didn't stick with the club that are no longer on this earth, you know.

they got caught up with the things in the street. and that's another thing, the club -- and obviously parenting or whatever, your religious affiliation is, it teaches you right from wrong. it teaches you maybe i shouldn't make that left turn, i should stay on the path. so that's one of the important things i remember about the club. >> we appreciate the work you're doing. we'd be remiss if we didn't point out denzel this week killing a double-breasted suit on the cover of "gq" magazine. >> is it now now already? >> there it is. >> yeah, you're crushing it. >> okay. i'd better go get my 100 copies. >> buy them out. you know, it's interesting, though, denzel, in that interview which we're going to talk about with the man who interviewed you in our next hour, you talk a little bit about president obama, a guy you've supported. i wonder how you think as this election comes up he's done over the last 3 1/2 years. >> well, obviously, there's a lot more work to be done. it's easy to talk about solutions. it's obviously more difficult to implement them.

so we're going to see what happens. >> all right. denzel washington and jim clark doing great work. >> doesn't denzel have a new movie coming out in november? "flight"? >> good luck with it, man. "gq," movies, he's doing it all. thanks so much for the work you're doing, boys and girls club of america. appreciate you being on. >> thank you. when we come back, stephen colbert takes to heart the comments romney made were not stated more elegantly. colbert makes them more elegant. we'll be right back. [ giggling ]

[ laughing ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ]

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videotape "inelegantly," is the word he used. stephen colbert, trying to be helpful, showed governor romney a way he could have been more elegant. >> we are all gathered here this evening because i have agreed to accept the presidency. but, unfortunately, almost half, two score and 7%, will vote for my opponent, that socialist hot-n-tot. but what could one do? these people are just parasites sucking on teeth of lady liberty. oh, how their hunger knows no bounds. winslow, bring me the shrimp and the mindless masses. come on, come in. yes. there we go. thank you, winslow. thank you. now hold still. hold still. okay. there you go. there you go. see how they love it? see? oh. oh, they crave it. oh, it's so sad.

take responsibility for your lives. come on. stop being a victim. oh, winslow, winslow -- take them away, they depress me and they smell like shrimp. ouch! ouch! >> deputy editor michael haney will take us inside the october issue. he's the man who interviewed denzel washington. also discovery channel's mike rowe here with a new project. "tracing america's love for booze." what a racket that show is, mike rowe. we'll talk to him about it when we come back. americans believe they should be in charge of their own future.

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how's this for a lineup? fom on "morning joe," republican senator rand paul of kentucky, also former mets pitcher ron darling is going to be here. let's get the whole rotation in.

>> robbery, massachusetts and yale university. >> ron darling tomorrow. next, a look at state of the race and big questions about the direction of the country and inside some battleground states. this as more key conservatives continue to criticize their candidate. back in a moment. with the fidelity stock screener, you can try strategies from independent experts and see what criteria they use. such as a 5% yield on dividend-paying stocks. then you can customize the strategies and narrow down to exactly those stocks you want to follow. i'm mark allen of fidelity investments. the expert strategies feature is one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account.

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good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set, mike barnicle, and richard haas and mark halperin is in chicago. in a moment we'll be showing you the newest polls where mitt romney's numbers continue to dip and the republican candidate is now facing what can best be described as an open rebellion from the right. bill chrkristo of the weekly standard joins us to talk about romney's choice of words in that fund-raiser. in an opinion piece entitled "a note on romney's arrogant and stupid remarks been requests -- worth recalling that a good chunk frt 47% who don't pay income taxes are romney supporters especially of course seniors, as well as many lower income americans including men and women serving in the

military who think conservative policies are bet are for the country even if they're not getting a tax cut under the romney plan. has there been a presidential race in modern times featuring two candidates who have done so little over their life times for our country and who have so little substance to say about the future of our country? bill kristol. >> not only their pasts, but more depressingly, what mitt romney and barack obama do not offer for the next four years. >> i think one of the reasons that your people are sitting around here more broadly talking about the tapes and gaffes and other statements is there's not a whole lot of content and substance to sit around talking about so that's all you've got. you've got to almost read the tea leaves of these kinds of comments and say is that unintentionally revealing. people aren't putting out

statements about what we ought to do to get economic growth up to historic levels, what we ought to be doing about the middle east and other foreign policy challenges, then we'd have something real to talk about in this campaign and these things woint be front and center. >> the "wall street journal" proved this morning their editorial what i've been saying all along, mitt romney doesn't know how to speak like a conservative because you get -- you just believe over time it's just not in his gut. he's a technocrat, a data guy. he wants to be president of the united states. but the "wall street journal" -- i thought they said it wonderfully -- which is we conservatives aren't angry at these people, that 47% of the population that are on government benefits. we don't look at them as the problem. they are victims. they are victims of bad economic policies that over the past decade have caused -- have

caused this economy to drop. and our job as conservatives is to turn the economy around and make americans less dependent on the federal government. not because we resent those people who have to get help, like scott brown in massachusetts said growing up, his family needed assistance. growing up, my family needed assistance. and that's what kristol gets here, that mitt romney doesn't get. that's what the "wall street journal" editorial page gets that mitt romney doesn't get. and that is that guys like my dad who were unemployed for a year-and-a-half and couldn't find a job, they were voting nixon and they were voting the straight republican ticket and they were voting for the most conservative people on the ticket because they believed that was their best way forward. maybe there are people unemployed that will vote for the democrat. but mitt romney's idea that if you're on unemployment benefits

or if you're getting money from the federal government, that you're just as lazy, slob of a victim? it just shows how insulated and isolated he is. kristol gets it. the "wall street journal" editorial page gets it. mitt romney doesn't. >> you're not the only one from the right saying this. i mean i was asking the question -- i'm not obviously from this point of view, but i've been asking why can't you reset this campaign? why can't big changes be made right now to the team and most of the experts that we've had on who's covered campaigns past said it just doesn't happen. it just doesn't happen. it just doesn't happen this late. >> peggy says it should. >> the "wall street journal's" peggy noonan writes, "it's time for an intervention. it is time to admit the rommy campaign is an incompetent one. it's not big, it's not brave, it's not thoughtfully tackling the issues. it's always been too small for

the moment. all the activists and party supporters and big donors should be pushing for change. people want to focus on who at the top is least responsible. fine. but mitt romney isn't a puppet. he chooses who to listen to. an intervention is in order. mi mitt, this isn't working. massachusetts senator scott brown who is in his own tough re-election fight said of romney's comments this -- that's not the way i view the world. as someone who grew up in tough circumstances, i know that being on public assistance is not a spot that anyone wants to be in. elizabeth warren is pouncing on mitt romney's comments. because they'll connect. it is a nightmare for scott brown. >> you see those other blue state republicans. linda mcmahon yesterday, same thing. ran the other way from those comments. didn't attend the fund-raiser with paul ryan in fairfield county. two of them, i think. you're going to see this trend in blue states. >> lindsay graham even in a red state, coming out yesterday, being critical. i've said this for a couple

weeks and we've been hearing it behind the scenes and all of these right wing nut jobs, far right wing nut jobs online or on twitter -- why's joe scarborough, the rhino, saying that? the point about 10, 12 days ago that i was trying to make, if you have people like reagan and people like margaret thatcher would not have change the world, would not have changed their parties, would not have changed their conservative movements, would not have changed their countries if they had run these timid, negative campaigns. i mean margaret thatcher was a shopkeeper's daughter. she wasn't the 1%. and she got it. reagan got it. like i said, bill kristol gets it. paul ryan gets it. >> it's really not that hard, is the problem. >> why do they get it? i'll tell you why they get it. because each person, as you just mentioned, reagan, thatcher, paul ryan, bill kristol, they know who they are. what that tape does, it reveals

so much about something that i've thought about with regard to mitt romney for at least 20 years. who is he? who is he? is he a moderate trying to pretend he's a tough guy really nut case right wing conservative? who is he? >> he's insulated, that's who he is. >> he's insulated, but he's also i think fundamentally at his core trying to figure out on a daily basis who is he. the campaign reflects that. every campaign is a mirror reflection of a candidate at some level. we all know that. what you've got here -- what he did in that -- look, the election is far from over. there are 49 days left, 49 different things can happen. but it reveals a couple of things. one, he's not very optimistic. americans are optimistic. that's one fatal flaw, near fatal flaw. the other aspect that it reveals is his use of the word

"victims." which is -- wow. >> victims who want to sit back and do nothing. >> the third thing is does, at least locally and i think this is probably happening in several other states, is scott brown is now in real trouble. real trouble. this was a huge in-kind contribution to elizabeth warren's campaign. >> no doubt about it, it hurts linda mcmahon, it hurts republicans in blue states that are swimming upstream already. but what a great point. the lack of optimism, richard haas, that mike just pointed out, that -- in mitt romney, whereas thatcher was extraordinarily optimistic. reagan was extraordinarily optimistic. george w. bush won in 2000 by talking about being a compassionate conservative, going to the inner cities, talking about leaving no child behind. whether you like the policies or not, he believed in an opportunity society. jack kemp believed in an opportunity society.

conservatism works when you basically have a group of people who are evangelicals for the free market system, not because you want to separate the "victims" from the producers, but because you want -- i'll just say it -- you believe -- i still believe a rising tide lifts all boats, left wingers, who i just offended. let me say it again. a rising tide lifts all boats. and doesn't believe that. he believes he can win with 51% and let the 49% take care of themselves. >> that's why so much of the conversation ought to be on how you get economic growth back. if you have economic growth that's at the level that has historically been for the last 50 years, which is just over 3%. if you do that, it will not only deal with jobs but it will deal with lots of the questions and problems that are part of this debate. ultimately the faultline in the united states is not the faultline between people who are receiving federal assistance and

those who aren't. what we want to do is get people off those things. that status ought to be transitional and they ought to ultimately move to the point where they are, if you will, taxpayers or they are working full time and so forth and that ought to be the debate. that's what's missing. what's missing, again, i think from this campaign is not just optimism, but it is a set of ideas on the economy, on the budget, on our role in the world. neither candidate is actually putting forward much in the way -- you say an optimistic agenda, i'd also kind of a positive agenda. instead you have two candidates who are mainly counterpunching and they're refraining from putting forward ideas lest they be attacked. this is a very defensive campaign. you don't say what tax expenditures you'd get rid of or how exactly you'll kur tall entitlements. by not playing offense, you're still on the defensive. because people are fastening on these comments. only real strategy that will

succeed is an offensive strategy. >> again, willie, that's something the "wall street journal" said ten days ago, the editorial page. if you don't believe in anything, then you're going to keep stumbling over yourself. >> someone said yesterday he has conservatism as a second language. it's not his fluent language. you have to wonder though what a republican who's a member of that 47% thinks watching that tape and listening to that. you're lon hin income, senior, member of the military, whoever you might be that doesn't pay federal income taxes. you say is that the way the guy who wants to be leader of our country thinks about me? and peggy raises the larger point, you can talk about what it means for mitt romney and his campaign, but what does it mean for conservatism? behind closed doors mitt romney just made the parody, the caricature of conservatism of the republican party that progressives make, that all they care about the 53% of rich people. he made the case on tape. >> so let's say you're serving in afghanistan or you had several tours of duty there and your family's struggling, and

you watch the republican national convention and you are not mentioned in mitt romney's signature speech that's supposed to lay the groundwork for the really kick-start of the campaign or reset of of the campaign. and then you do hear him speak at this fund-raiser. on hidden camera. >> yeah. exactly. >> i don't think you're happy. >> and again, talking about the chaos in the campaign. pete waner who wrote romney's speech wrote about afghanistan. and stuart stevens tore the speech up and chaos ensued and this is what we get. we also got a new nbc/"wall street journal" poll that came out and it shows actually barack obama is benefiting. >> increased optimism on the economy, direction the country. look at head-to-head match-up, obama-biden tickets leads romney-ryan by likely voters by five points. also for the first time since march, president obama's job approval has reached the 50%

mark, 48% disapprove. on the direction of the country, 39% said the country was heading in the right direction. 55% say it's on the wrong track. that's 7% improvement from last month. on the economy, 42% said the economy will get better in the next 12 months. that's the highest number this poll question has seen in 2 1/2 years. >> that's pretty big. and also, mika, when asked which candidate is best to handle the economy, look at this. it's now tied. >> president obama now tied with romney, 43%-43%. this is the first time romney has not led on this question. this latest polling was conducted after last week's u.s. embassy attacks which appear to have impacted the president's numbers on foreign policy. 49% approve. last month that number was 54%. the poll was taken before the release of that videotape. >> mark halperin, you also look at some of the state by state polls that are out right now. a new one in wisconsin, bad news

of course. ohio. it seems the internals keep getting worse. i had one republican operative tell me yesterday there's some question how long they're going to stay in ohio. colorado right now, obama ahead there. virginia, a four-point lead there. mitt romney has an uphill battle. he can still win, we've said it time and time again. we'll keep saying it. but, my gosh, just a miserable week for him. what are they talking about in boston? what's their next step? are they in a bunker or do they understand they've got to make some dramatic changes? >> well, i think they should all read peggy noonan's comments which i cited earlier. even if you don't agree with everything in it, and i don't agree with everything in it, but it is very smart in terms of analyzing what is going on. they think that they're still on a decent trajectory but they know that governor romney needs to step up his game. i think mike's absolutely right,

that one of the worst things about his performance on that video is that he doesn't come off as optimistic. the irony is -- he is hard to understand -- i find him to be one of the most optimistic politicians i've ever covered when he's being himself and being natural. i don't think he necessarily was representing himself in that fund-raiser the way he truly is. but he doesn't have big ideas. i think richard's absolutely right. the obama people agree with this. they said yesterday one reason the tape's getting so much coverage is because romney's not filling the vacuum with anything. when we come back, "gq" editor michael hainy is going to take us inside the issue, including a behind-the-scenes strategy guide for both candidates heading into the presidential debates. also ahead, we'll talk to the discovery channel's mike rowe about how booze built america. >> mike rowe's the man. >> booze. booze. okay. but first, here's nbc meteorologist dylan dryer with a check on the forecast. >> we are going to see things clear out across the northeast.

we had some powerful storms move through yesterday. we saw wind gusts 40 to 60 miles per hour. straight-line winds. we did not get any reports of any tornadoes with this cold front but now it is clearing out and the rust of the country is looking real quiet. another minor cold front moving through mps right now and it is bringing a couple of showers. what you'll really notice out that way is the cooler air that's trying to work in. this is the last week of summer. fall starts this weekend and it is going to feel like it. temperatures right now are down in the 40s in chicago. we'll top out around 71 in that area later on today. most towns and cities across the country in the 70s and 80s. seattle, 73 degrees today. as we go into your thursday, we are going to see even cooler temperatures work into the northeast. highs only in the 60s and low 70s. scattered showers and storms though likely to pop up especially near florida with temperatures in the upper 80s and lower 90s for your thursday. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i just want to give her everything. [ whistles ]

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, the deputy editor of "gq," michael hainey. this issue includes a piece on candidate's preparation for the upcoming presidential debate. >> finally a little elegance to join me on the "morning joe" set. >> i like the deutsche ensemble. we were having a debate off camera on cuffed jeans.

on the record, we support you. bam. mike's a little scared. cuffed jeans. you said what are you guys up in the catskills? cuffed jeans, in a couple years, you'll be there, mike. >> deliverance 2. >> i can't get there on the cuffed jeans but donny pulls it off. >> when mike gets there, i want to be here. that's all i know. >> let's talk quickly about -- we showed denzel. >> i did the interview with denzel down in new orleans this summer. fantastic guy. we put him on the cover as one of three covers this month that we did. chr we love denzel especially because you talk about a male icon. when you talk even in this campaign season about like who represents america and success, there is no greater guy than denzel. we put the story up online and just the response, what a role model he is for a lot of guys, as you heard in not just the work he does with the boys and

girls club. >> he looks damn good in a double-breasted suit. >> he does. as you said, he's killing it. >> he was intense in the movie, too. >> you forget he's won two oscars. he's won twice. >> great guy. let's talk about the debate prep. october 3rd, two weeks from tonight, the first debate. donny deutsch says it doesn't matter. >> does not matter. >> does the debate matter? >> i just backed you up. >> no. my point -- i'm not -- >> i know. my point is about the debates, everyone says can you reset the narrative, what's going to happen, we're 50 days out. we've got a great story by robert draper in this issue and it is really like there's 270 minutes at the campaign comes down to now. those three debates. to me it is less can you reset that narrative in these final weeks or can you sort of like land that punch. in some ways obama's got more to lose. he's the incumbent. he's in a little bit of a jimmy carter position. you're standing next to a reagan

who can like land that body blow, who knows what happens. >> 8,000 hours of these guys, they've shown their cards. i'm not quite sure -- >> first time side by side. >> you talk about consumption of ideas, consumption of people, personalities. i think the two of them standing side by side are either going to reinforce -- romney's going to reinforce the things we least like about him or he'll present something new. he won't change his own personality but people may say i could go with him or president obama will make clear he's not ready to be president, that being romney -- >> we've got the background on the debate prep and how these guys prepare. if you had to represent romney to spar with obama, what would you be coming at him with? >> if i were prepping romney, every time president obama would make a statement about debt, about jobs, about where we're going in the future, where i disagree i'd start to answer off

with that's where we disagree and i would lay out affirmatively and succinctly where he wants to take the country. don't think so much about a personality overhaul as providing limited details to make your case. if you're president obama, you do the same thing, i'm not that guy, i'm for the middle class, here's what we do. >> the debates in '07 and '08, obama was still a candidate, he was on stage with hillary clinton, she was the front-runner and our good friend john edwards was still in the race. he was always beating up on hillary. his advisors were trying to get obama come in because they thought if they could double-team her. there is a scene off stage where obama, he can be a little bit of an aloof debater. edwards goes up to her and says obama, you need to focus. and he comes back in the debate and that's when he sort of like goes after hillary. >> edwards does that in the debate in which he's participating. >> yes. in '07 in one of the primary debates. it is fascinating, he can almost credit john edwards with lighting that debate fire under

obama. >> mike barnicle wants to dig in to the worst decisions in sports history -- >> mike's back there with his gun loaded, ready to go. >> mike, you want to to grady little? >> we start off with our number one decision being jeremy lin going to the knicks. >> that's a little reactionary. >> it's very current, we might say. some of us weren't alive when babe ruth got traded, mike. i'm sorry. i know that scarred your childhood. >> jeremy lin, as a knicks fan. donny, you agree, too? >> horrible decision on so many levels. on the court. off the court. >> he lit that place up. >> i think he's got maybe a worst decision when it comes to the knicks and new york -- isiah thomas. >> only put us in the wilderness for two decades or so. >> yes. and he's on the verge of being retain again. sfr is that t

>> is that the guy every time you think he's dead, he comes in through the back door somehow. >> tell me the motivation for michael jordan. >> michael jordan retires to give baseball a try. you know, there's a lot of speculation on why he sort of left basketball. but it was -- come on, it was a horrible decision. to walk away at the peak of your career for his prime playing days to sort of go and do baseball in birmingham? i don't know how much he loved birmingham but i don't think you'll spend a season and a half there. right? >> luckily, he could come back. >> mike doesn't like that one. >> you got brett favre using the digital world to his disadvantage. >> number eight -- espn hiring rush limbaugh to join the nfl pre-game show. i'm sure we all remember that one. >> jamarcus russell you say was the worst draft choice. what about that guy ryan leaf from washington state? he's got to be right up there. >> that is an insane story. >> also the decision. we got to talk about the decision. lebron james announcing on espn that he's going to take his talents to south beach.

>> which at the time -- funny, again we're saying off set when you win a championship, all is forgiven. so i think that's going to sort of recede a little bit. but certainly at the time you got to wonder what the hell was he looking. >> we have something in the magazine that teases ahead to our next guest who's already back here drinking on national television, mike rowe, best beer cities in america. >> it's oktoberfest. we like to say roktoberfest. i know it is a little early but i'm sure someone's going to start drinking. >> los angeles, number one, denver, two, philadelphia, three. >> you got to be kidding! that doesn't seem -- somewhat counterintuitive. >> i don't want to suggest the coastal elites control your magazine but the top two sports were the knicks and you made l.a. the best beer city. >> we need to appeal to wide constituency here. >> number one beer drinking city, you should have had something like worcester,

massachusetts. >> what about philly? that's a good beer drinking town. >> probably they're selling more magazines in l.a. than worcester. just -- >> you think? can you imagine mike barnicle in cuffed jeans? that's the big draw. >> cuffed jeans are all the rage. the new issue of "gq" is out now. mi coming up, after working hundreds of dirty jobs, our next guest deserves his latest assignment. it entails drinking, and drinking alone. discovery channel's mike rowe describe how booze built america next on "morning joe." i learned something today. it's called the a-team and it's fabulous. mike barnicle, what did you learn? >> i learned the last time you went to the movies "the sound of music" was playing. >> that's okay. bradley cooper? >> i learned there is a great new show on the wii network.

>> happy anniversary "morning joe." >> it's funny, it's balanced and it's thought provoking. so keep it up, joe an mika. another five years an even more ahead. [ giggling ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ] ♪ [ laughing ]

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first of all, is it true

you're making beer in the white house? >> it is true. >> is that legal? >> i don't know. >> look into that. >> we started making it. then somebody said do we need a license for this we just had a big project today, the whole infrastructure under the white house. that's top secret. you know, if the presidency thing doesn't work out, you mow? got a little microbrewery thing going on. >> who knows? could become a craft brewer. that was president obama last night talking about a craft beer they're making at the white house. joining us on set, mike rowe the host of the discovery series "how booze built america," looks at the role alcohol has played in america's political history dating all the way back to the revolutionary war. let's take a quick look. >> in the 1700s, rum was big, big business. colonists produced close to 5 million gallons a year. almost $10 million worth.

massachusetts alone churned out more than 2 million gallons annually. all that rum -- not tea -- is what really le to the boston tea party around the revolution. >> mike rowe's with us now. mike, good morning. >> thank you. >> we should point out, these are not props. you've had about 13 of these already this morning. i think it will be reflected in the interview. >> yes. we have the whole new 13-pack coming out. we think it is going to be a big, big hit. >> the baker's dozen. >> this is his first. >> i like how you are attempting in our conversation off camera to spin this as a show about history when really it is just you traipsing around the country drinking. >> it is a pub crawl with the social studies teachers you wshn you had. >> walk us through what the show looks like. sound likes you go east to west. >> pretty much. we're taking some really big bites out of the american history. most of us remember if we stayed awake in eighth grade social studies. for real. we're not trying to come to people with some whole new narrative. these are the basic ideas you

know but what you don't know is the degree to which alcohol and our relationship with alcohol influenced every single thing in this country from the freedom that we have to the way we paid for our wars, to the reason we fought our wars. prohibition obviously, but nascar, csi, getting to the moon are all connected to our relationship with beer, wine and liquor. >> we got to the moon. you're going to draw the line from the moon back to what? >> since we're in new york, you got to go back to 1904. a bar in midtown here called sullivan's. it was owned by the bare knuckle boxing champion of the world back in the day, john sullivan. right? story goes he was in the bar on the day in question when kerry nation walked in to the bar who had developed a reputation for herself out in kansas for these things called hatchetings. she'd walk into her bar with a hatchet and purse full of rocks and tear the place to pieces because she was vehemently

opposed to booze. anyway, sullivan runs for his life when he sees kerry nation because everybody knew this woman was on a tear. when i read the account of that, i thought that's pretty fascinating. because kerry nation and everything that she represented brought us to the temperance movement which basically lays the groundwork for prohibition. >> this is where you get drunk. it doesn't matter where you follow. >> the thing about prohibition people forget, you're talking about the illegality of import, export, sales and distribution. not consumption. it is still okay to drink, just bad to buy it. so everything goes upside down. law of unintended consequences kicks in this a huge way. way leads on to way. suddenly there's the mob and fbi within a year or so. nascar comes out of prohibition. if you follow it even further you get to joe kennedy. joe kennedy made a fair amount of money bringing liquor into the country, legally certainly, and perhaps in some other ways -- i'm not here to cast

aspersions. however, by the mid 1950s, the guy's worth half a million dollars, his boy wants to be president, john kennedy's there, money changes hands, john kennedy's in office. we go to the moon. i'm not sure that happens if kerry nation doesn't want into sullivan's. >> johnny, you follow that? >> they didn't teach me that in sixth grade history. >> that's the thing. they leave out the stuff that makes history cool. my dad's an eighth grade social studies teacher for real and it always bugged me that when we look at shows today and ask ourselves why aren't people more jazzed by the fun of this, it's because we've become like a nation of correctors. you know? the guys in the tweed coats with the patches on the sleeves, they're just waiting to hear the wrong date, the wrong time, the wrong place, some wrong fact. pretty soon you suck the joy out of a great story. >> that's it. i mean american history is a phenomenal story. it's the best.

when told properly, even when not drunk. but the boston tea party, one of the elements that was mentioned, boston tea party. what's the take on the boston tea party? >> the boston tea party really had very little to do with tea. the molasses act i think was 1733. then the sugar act not long after that. king george needed money. this is really a story of taxes. right? booze is the story of taxes. so england wants the shortest distance between us and money. so they tax molasses. molasses goes to rum, rum goes to slaves. big triangle trade. the effect that had on the average guy back in those days -- remember, you can't drink the water. water will kill you. disdintary. blacks stopped in plymouth, they

were going south, they ran out of beer. mayflower ran out of beer. they were making beer -- they had had small beer for their kids. everybody drank beer. everybody. >> sounds like a road trip to daytona beach. >> bring us back to the first two hours of the show. if i was going to say mitt romney's here, mike rowe's here, as far as humanity -- everybody loves this guy, he can sell anything, there's a plain speak. i'm being serious here. if you are walking into politics -- >> i think you just might have. >> what would you say to mitt romney as far as talking to people. forget whether you agree or disagree with his message. because you have this in your soul. >> i've actually said something to him, to tell you the truth. i said something to both these -- four years ago i wrote an open letter to the president. and i said, listen. i've started this foundation for work. we raise money for trade schools and we buy tools for kids. i wrote the same letter to romney a week and a half ago. romney answered in 12 hours. i haven't met him yet but i will.

and if he asks me, i'll tell him, look, everybody four years we go through this same kabuki theat theater. they do a soft some steel worker outside pittsburgh. they all do it, hillary did it, whether running for alderman or president. there's almost this desperate sort of lurching to connect and think about how often we do it over a beer. i mean think about the beer summit that the president had a couple years ago. right? it's one of those things that immediately distills, if you will, most everyone's feelings in to kind of a common denominator. so -- >> do shots every day. >> it's not just the shots. it's the tavern. that's something else we talk about in the show. there was no facebook in 1620. the tanvern cultured fueled by the need for beer became basically the whole circulatory system of new england.

it was that sam culture, taverns, gathering, talking, exchanging ideas. people got married in taverns. people went to church taverns. >> why you looking at me? >> because you look like you're married and you have been to church a couple of times. i would say go out and listen. two ears, one mouth. maybe drink a little. >> we are suckers for guests bearing beer. "how booed built america" premiers tonight at 10:00 eastern time on discovery. looks great. >> thanks for having me. the new threat to the american economy that top investors think is more dangerous than the european debt crisis. that story on "morning joe." we've all had those moments.

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apple to the newspapers, taking out full-page ads, comparing their phonal galaxy to the iphone 5. apple stocks are soaring to a record high, over $700 a share. samsung lost a landmark billion dollar ruling in federal court earlier this summer over infringing on apple pat tents. according to a new survey of global investors, the fiscal cliff now trumps the european debt crisis as the top risk threatening the economy by the end of this career. the survey finds 35% of investment fund managers say the fiscal cliff is the most pressing issue. that's up 10% from just a month before. the european debt crisis had occupied the top spot for the past 17 months. also in the survey, 58% of those investors say u.s. stocks are overvalued at their highest level now since 2004. tomorrow on "morning joe," republican senator rand paul of kentucky. also, former mets pitcher, current broadcaster, ron

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as i like to tell joe and mika, i started coming on "morning joe" before "morning

joe" was cool, and i feel like i've been present at creation. happy fifth birthday, happy five more, ten more, 50 more to you. >> hey, joe, mika, happy fifth a anniversary. but a little piece of advice -- could you loosen up a little more. >> we had researchers take look at this videotape. let's see the whole thing. let's see what else is in this videotape that's so damaging now on first appearance. i think you'll be fascinated so let's roll it now. hidden videotape. >> what's up, gangstas? it's the m-i-double tizle. i have no proof, but i feel like it is canada is up to something. my new cologne is available at macy's. >> see? >> what does mitt wear to bed?

>> really. >> i didn't write the question, man. i promise. i didn't write the question. >> yes, he did. >> i think the best answer is -- as little as possible. >> what is your biggest pet peeve with each other? >> he doesn't like the way i squeeze the toothpaste. >> you don't go to the bottom and work -- >> it's just random. >> and she leaves the top off. that's exactly right. >> serious question -- honey boo-boo or snooki? >> do you know who either of these two -- >> i'm kind of a snooki fan. i mean look how tiny she's gotten. she's lost weight and she's energetic. just her spark plug personality is kind of fun. >> you look great. >> i feel good. >> how much do you weigh? >> you know, about 180. >> 180 looks good on you.

>> thank you. >> that's just about where i am and i don't look so good at 180. >> you look sharp. you haven't seen me naked. >> we're going to keep it that way. >> that's fair enough. all right. i like that. i wanted to know before we get started if you would like to say something to the empty chair. how do you feel your convention went? >> well, it was terrific except as usual, people always realize how much better michelle is than me. and then -- so then i have to go through the whole week, people saying, boy, your wife, she was really great and, you know, you were okay. you say, yeah. welcome to my life.

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[ laughing ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ] [ laughing ] ♪

i'm also a survivor of ovarian a writand uterine cancers. [ laughing ] i even wrote a play about that. my symptoms were a pain in my abdomen and periods that were heavier and longer than usual for me. if you have symptoms that last two weeks or longer, be brave, go to the doctor. ovarian and uterine cancers are gynecologic cancers. symptoms are not the same for everyone. i got sick...and then i got better.

olaf's pizza palace gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! pizza!!!!! [ garth ] olaf's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! helium delivery. put it on my spark card! [ pop! ] [ garth ] why settle for less? great businesses deserve the most rewards! awesome!!! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? time to tell you what we learned today. donny, what did you learn? >> i learned that mike rowe is just one of the coolest guys around. just the guy you want to have a beer with. simple as that. and romney can learn from. >> he's not putting on a show. he's exactly sitting in that chair as he is on television. great guy, mike rowe. >> what did you learn, mike? >> cuffed jeans?